Neighbors Concerned After Alleged Bear Shooting
By Logan Hall
A neighborhood on the East End of Ojai is reeling after a bear was allegedly shot by an area resident according to some locals and the California Department of Fish and Game.
DFG spokesman Andrew Hughan says an unnamed resident near Thacher Road reported that a bear was damaging a chicken coop on their property. After a DFG game warden investigated, Hughan says the property owner was issued a depredation permit by the warden, which allows the resident to kill the bear either by hiring a professional or doing it personally if they have a valid hunting license and are in a rural area.
Hughan says the DFG was called in on Sunday morning when the resident reported having heard a disturbance outside, subsequently exiting the house with a firearm before allegedly firing shots at an unidentified animal. “On Sunday morning,” said Hughan, “someone on the property thought they heard a bear and came out shooting and injured an animal.”
A DFG game warden was again dispatched to investigate the property where animal tracks and evidence of blood were inconclusive. Hughan added that, “The game warden couldn’t determine what kind of bear had been shot or even if there was a bear at all.”
However, the homeowner in question, who requested to remain anonymous, claims to have seen the bear get shot. “I saw the bear,” said the owner of the property. “We are really upset that it had to be injured. We had built what we felt was a really secure coop that had electricity attached at night. We have been here for many years and have never had a problem like this. We did what we could to get the bear to leave us alone.”
Hughan claims the DFG is operating under state law and that state legislation requires DFG field agents to issue depredation permits if they are requested and evidence of injury or property damage can be presented. “We are tied by legislation,” he said. “If someone asks for a permit, we have to issue it.”
Local wildlife advocates believe there are many alternatives to killing an animal and believe that the DFG was wrong in issuing the depredation permit. “An animal shouldn’t die for something that is a person’s fault,” said Sue Williamson, co-founder of the Ojai Wildlife League. “This man still had the same chicken coop after the bear had already gotten to it a few times. We want to educate people that if they have something that is attracting unwanted wildlife, they need to fix the problem.”
Hughan says that bears don’t intentionally harm people or their property, but certain things are more likely to attract animals like bears. “The bears are just doing what bears do,” he said. “They’re looking for food. People really need to clean up their trash and never leave food lying around. Chicken coops are just setting up a live table for the bear.”
Williamson echoes Hughan’s thoughts on the matter. “It’s like putting out bait and then shooting the animal that shows up to get it,” said Williamson. “It was unacceptable for them to shoot the bear when they wouldn’t fix their coop.”
Williamson also believes that the DFG could have done more to prevent the alleged shooting. “We have a big bone to pick with the DFG,” she said. “They shouldn’t have given them a depredation permit. They screwed up and we’re going to let them know about it.”
Hughan, although not addressing Williamson’s concerns specifically, said that DFG personnel really care about the animals and never want to see something like this happen. “The last thing in the world that any DFG employee wants to do is destroy an animal,” said Hughan. “Sometimes it happens and it’s a sad and unfortunate part of the job. When public safety is an issue though, that comes first.”
One neighbor of the property in question, who also requested to remain anonymous, believes that more could have been done to prevent the alleged shooting. “We live in a place that’s along a wildlife corridor,” said the neighbor. “When the bears don’t have any food, you can’t expect them not to take advantage of something like a chicken coop. They know they made a mistake though.”
The resident who allegedly shot the bear hopes that other people can learn from the experience and help prevent similar situations in the future. “We now have better ideas on how to secure our chicken coop,” said the property owner. “We want to live here in harmony with the bears, but I also want to protect my home and pets and family. We will use Sue’s (Williamson) guidelines and see if we can prevent any more incidents. We are not bear haters.”
For information on proper ways to prevent bears from entering a property, contact the Ojai Wildlife League at 640-0187 (also see Williamson’s guest editorial on Page A5).
Hi Nan,
Thank you for pointing out that there are serious consequences when bears become conditioned to human sources of food.
Bears can be reeducated through non lethal aversion programs. All the concerns you express will be addressed at our meeting with DFG this Thurday, Aug 25th, 7pm, at Theater 150.
“Being good shepherds of bears involves making [your food, your pet\'s food, your livestock, the bird feeder, the garbage can] unavailable to bears, but it goes further than that. It also involves learning enough to know that it’s okay to be ‘top dog’ to a bears. It doesn’t ‘insult’ a bear to be put in its place; this happens to them most days with other bears, already. Not letting a bear graze in your front yard isn’t ‘harassing’ it; it is merely asserting your personal space, something bears totally understand. You don’t have to like bears to do these things; understanding these simple principles can help keep them out of your way, as well as saving their lives.”
– Anne Braaten, biologist, North Cascades National Park Service
I’ve been in the mountains, and listened to others about bear problems and there are two things I learned. One nothing, Nothing is bear proof only bear resistant. And two, most of the time it wasn’t the packers or country people that created the a problem bear, it was the yahoos and their lack of understanding about nature and it’s inhabitants. This person didn’t take matters into his own hands, he went through the right channels. These bears start off, by being attracted to your garbage, and subsequently begin to be desensitize to our world that would normally send them running. Now they are comfortable enough that the mere sight of use, or our barking dogs doesn’t frighten them. What do you think might happen next.
To ritske wouters,
We will be discusing the question of private property on national forest land at our August 25th meeting with Fish & Game.
For details click here or read below:
http://ovnblog.com/?p=4858
Community Alert
The Ojai Wildlife League invites the community to attend a meeting with representatives from the Department of Fish and Gameon Aug. 25 at 7 p.m., at Theater 150, 316 E. Matilija St. Attending will be Lt. Mike Stefanak, the warden supervisor for the Ojai area,and Andrew Hughan, public information officer. In addition, Marc Kenyon, the DFG bear biologist, hopes to attend. Individuals from local wildlife organizations will also participate.
This is an opportunity to have a discussion about the recent shooting of a bear on Thacher Road and to educate ourselves on ways to prevent incidents like this in the future. Learn how to bear-proof your chicken coop and trash cans and simple bear aversion techniques.
For more information call 640-0187 or visit www.Ojaiwildlifeleague.com.
Here is a direct link to bear policies in California:
http://www.ojaiwildlifeleague.com/category/articles/
Given the amount of water in the mountains right now, including up Horn Canyon (near where this incident occurred)I would say the bear was possibly more interested in food. I bet he was after the chicken scratch and/or scraps rather than the chickens. Our local bears love to eat stationary things like avocados, garbage and carrion. Bear do not see well and are fairly slow. But have an incredible sense of smell. Grizzlies and Browns are different and more aggressive. Also, Sue has said this property was “in the national forest?” Could you expand that, because it doesn’t entirely make sense to me. Are we talking about leased property belonging to the USFS, an inholding surrounded by national forest or what? Also, just to let you know when you’re dealing with wildlife issues and for example the shooting thereof it’s more about the bear as such and not the property it’s found on (except for the safety issues of shooting in a neighborhood!).
In other words, I may “own” my property, but if a bear, eagle or any other regulated species comes onto my property I can’t just shoot it as though it were my own. Sure, there may be a special program in place as regards a bear being on public land (forest), but the bear is regulated (hence the issuance of the permit) wherever it goes.
Touche barzear~ People who live in glass houses should not throw stones…
Moderator, please correct spelling of “location” in comment above. Thank you.
Bears have long been known for intelligence comparable with that of higher primates and possess the largest brains relative to their size of any North American land mammal.
They are highly evolved social animals, form hierarchies and structured relationships, use tools like sticks for scratching and throw rocks during play, and have been known to show self-awareness by covering their tracks when pursued by hunters and poachers.
We are planning a public meeting on August 25, at a loation to be announced. Dept. of Fish and Game will be in attendance at that meeting.
One solution is to help keep the wildlife up there. Nobody has mentioned about placing cisterns up in the mountains like the one above the Rose Valley Sherriffs camp. They are about $20.000 each and three should do it. BLM has many in the desert for the Big Horn and Pumas. They will attrat other wildlife that the bears and other preditors can feed on.It’s a better use of money and donations from the community than another $50.000 bear sculpture that will only get vandalized eventually.
I agree it does no good to blame the fellow who shot the bear. It was truly the poor, and possibly illegal, decision of F&G to issue a depredation permit. I have recently learned that the property where this incident took place was on National Forest Land. This changes everything. The Tahoe Bear League worked for years with F&G to get a better bear policy. They felt it was largely a waste of time because 99% of their suggestions were ignored. However, one thing was changed, and that was how bears will be dealt with on properties within Public Lands. In those cases the BEAR has precedence and a Forest manager is supposed to be called in to mitigate all issues. Clearly this wasn’t done here and there was no mitigation by anyone except the residents, who apparently at least tried to do something. We will be exploring what to do with this information.
“My roots can be traced to the mostly white Cherokee Chief who led his people on the government-forced Trail of Tears.”
Cathy, Truth be told you and Suza are two peas in a pod.
Thanks to Cathy for adding some legal clarifications to the matter.
Except for DFG’s pretty decent comment from their Public Affairs Officer, it’s a shame we can’t actually have more of their perspective in this exchange and ditto that of the “chicken farmers.” In the absence of facts and input all kinds of ideas start growing which may not be entirely helpful. Journalism may be dying, but the blogosphere may actually be no real replacement.
Thanks to one and all though for a pretty good exchange of ideas and opinions.
Cathy Elliott Jones,
Quechan and Tongva heritage, so where is the lecture? Oh they are native to California.What did I assume? pí-yah-hó-naht
@ritske wouters: I was about to go off on DFG when I accidentally pushed “submit.” One would think that after the Aliso bear fiasco, DFG would have developed some sensitivity, but that would require a bona fide learning curve on the part of government bureaucrats. I can unequivocally state that if a bear strolled into my house and seated itself on my sofa, DFG would be the last organization I would contact. That having been said, I have researched the law and am posting this to clarify misstatements made on this blog:
(1) Chickens are not livestock. The DFG website states:
“Depredation permits over the past 25 years have been issued for a variety of reasons. Fifty percent of the depredation permits were issued for damage caused to structures or other property such as vehicles, trailers, recreational vehicles, etc. Livestock represented the next most abundant category with 15 percent. Livestock includes cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and horses. Orchards and fowl (chickens, geese and ducks) each represented 11 percent of the total, and beehives represented 8 percent. Crops, safety and pets represent the final 5 percent.”
If chickens qualified as livestock, the homeowner would not have required a depredation permit to shoot the bear, because pursuant to California Fish and Game Code Section 4181.1(a), none is necessary if a bear is attacking livestock.
(2) F&G Code Section 4181, and Title 14, Section 401, of the California Code of Regulations, govern the issuance of depredation permits. If the applicant demonstrates that bears are damaging or destroying property, or an immediate threat of damage or destruction of property exists, and that efforts were made to solve the problem without killing the bear, a revocable depredation permit will be issued, and will include what corrective actions “should” (note not “must”) be implemented to prevent a recurrence. Further, DFG “may” (note not “must”) add terms and conditions to the permit necessary to protect wildlife and public safety.
The homeowner stated that he had lived on his property for many years without ever having experienced this problem, and had installed electrical wiring to the chicken coop at night. That does not sound like enough to justify the issuance of the depredation permit by the DFG. If, in fact, there exists a chicken coop that is lion-proof, then it would surely be bear-proof as well, and, if utilized, the mama bear would be alive today. But I seriously doubt that DFG informed the applicant of that option, and am certain that he unwittingly believed he was following proper procedure to protect his property and chickens. Whether or not he was “a chicken farmer” (whatever that means), was angry that the bear was killing his chickens, or was simply terrified of bears, is of absolutely no consequence here. The only thing that matters is a bear was killed unnecessarily, and I blame DFG more than the property owner.
Please … no more shooting of bears in Ojai. If someone is experiencing a bear problem, contact Sue Williamson at the Ojai Wildlife League. Ask to speak only to her. She has stated here on this blog that she will keep any inquiries confidential, so that no one has to fear being turned into someone’s cause celebre of the moment. And Yoville: I am part Native American. My roots can be traced to the mostly white Cherokee Chief who led his people on the government-forced Trail of Tears. Beware of whom you are lecturing.
Bear the change you wish to see in the Ojai.
With all the barking dogs in Ojai, it’s a wonder the bears get any sleep!
Youvile, you must not live in America. Our entire continent was formerly occupied by Native Americans. And many of them weren’t that peaceful either!
Ritske, you nailed it. Thank you for your coherent, fair, and concise comments that summarize the thoughts of all of us who would have hoped we learned something from the Aliso bear experience.
I have the perfect solution to this issue…
All of you folks leave the valley, and then the Native Americans can come back and settle the land and live in peace with nature.
This whole issue has become nothing more than a control issue! Who gets to rule who and control!
Ghandi said:Be the change you wish to see.
None of you have any desire or willingness to look at the beam in your own eyes.
I think the Bear is a genius! She exposed you all for who you are!
Cathy, you have a client?!!
I think we should return for a moment to the culpability of the authorities in this matter, the Department of Fish and Game (DFG) who issued the depredation permit to the chicken people. When the bear thing happened on Aliso Street a couple years ago this was a big thing and turned into a marathon of sorts for law enforcement, the people whose tree the bear was in and the poor bear itself, who ended up getting killed. OWL was formed out of this debacle. Surely, DFG must have learned something from this, if not the fact that Ojai is a kind of special case in that we have people who care about bears. Whether you agree with this or not, it is simply good PR and as we become more urbanized and life becomes more complex DFG wardens must think about these things. These are not dumb people; but there is a dysfunction in DFG with communicating. It’s possible the wardens on duty in this current debacle didn’t know anything about the Aliso Street bear and how it put a community’s panties in a wad. I don’t say this to defend them, because this kind of story and its consequences should have been passed on and learned from. It is now being repeated, except now the chicken owners were using firearms in an inhabited area and this is even worse. There is something very wrong with this picture. In essence, DFG issued the permit but APPARENTLY without thinking about the ramifications which includes the Aliso bear incident and the use of firearms in a highly peopled area NEXT to a school (though they are out on summer break). Sure the homeowner on some level is culpable, but what about the “experts” in this situation–the game wardens? I’ll tell you what, if I go out and shoot a rabbit for dinner with my twenty gauge and I shoot too close to a trail (people on it or not) way up in the mountains and I by accident leave a loaded shell in my gun when I step onto the roadway to get into my car or I don’t have a license to hunt backed up by a safety course and test (all required by DFG) and one of those wardens happens to catch me–I am in pretty deep doo doo. I’d like to know how this same stringency applies to the Thacher area bear incident.
I have to agree with Cathy Elliott Jones. I didn’t care for the way the OWL people were saying things like, ” I don’t want to leave the name of the shooter out of respect for privacy but here is basically where he lives” and “shooter did this” and “shooter didn’t do that”. Its the kind of statements and thought mentality that would make me avoid an organization like OWL if I had a similar problem. Im sure they have lots of good suggestions but so far on this blog I haven’t heard too many positive and helpful things being said, just a lot of childishness. There are going to be people with opinions that differ from your own on this matter. It doesn’t help to try to convince people how wrong they are on a public blog and then resort to name calling. It would be best if the bear and its cubs could have been relocated but thats not what happened nothing is going to change that, it would have been better to kill the bear then wound it obviously the worst case scenario has happened so probably the only thing we can do is to keep your eyes open and be on the lookout for the bears. If you do see the bears call 911. As far as a three ring circus I hope that doesn’t happen because its never a helpful outcome.
May we please avoid allowing someone whom I will not name for her own protection (but coincidentally hers is the only face that appears all over this page; even more surreal is that three times my hand has rested on the right side of my computer and suddenly I was looking at a half-page picture of her in a yoga pose)turning this into a circus? I have met Sue Williamson, and came away impressed by her intelligence, humor, and dedication to and knowledge about many things, including wildlife. I understand the natural inclination to associate Sue and her motives with the time-worn, self-aggrandizing behavior of someone whom we have all endured for many years, but in this case it is just plain unfair. I am at least one of the persons who emailed her when a client who lives on McNell north of Thacher casually mentioned to me that, while driving home the night before, she had seen “a young bear” in the road. The client did not know that the mother bear had been shot in the early morning hours that day. Not a single person who has posted here knows exactly want prompted the shooting of the bear, but the article described the homeowner as distraught. From what I’ve read here, he should have done more to protect his chickens from a hungry mama bear and her cub. But are there more than a dozen people in this town who would reach out to one of these “I’m-A-Do-Gooder-So-I-Will-Look-Good-Doing-Better-Than-You” organizations, and oh, I have an assistant, and did I mention that my nephew is a politician? That is not reflective of Sue Williamson and the Ojai Wildlife League. The shooting of a bear in Ojai should, and one can only hope does, cause anyone with a conscious to feel queasy, if not disgusted, and as an earlier poster noted, perhaps the homeowner would have sought out the very prudent advice of OWL had he not feared being publicly turned into a Community Cause. And the mutual antagonism in these posts certainly will not make anyone else feel more welcome. Sue, I would recommend you distance yourself some and not join in calling the chicken coop man “the shooter.” It makes it sound like he perched at the top of a bell tower and picked off everything that moved. Let us focus on education in a nonthreatening manner.
The more challenging the personality the more Suza wants to meet them. lol
Somebody missed their med schedule.
P.S. when and where is the meeting? Does anyone know yet?
I agree Sue…….. Just know that our compassion and drive to figure out a solution always out weighs those that are just involved to idealize their own opinions while belittling everyone elses…or the issue itself. Replying to my comment by calling me dizzy pretty much tells me exactly where this guy is coming from. I hope he attends the meeting if he thinks he has a valuable contribution……..if he just wants to slam us “activists” and “half baked intolerany yuppies” Stay home……please.
Art won’t really go to the meeting because of Art, not because of Sue, Suza or anyone else. I think for a bunch of animal lover types, I think they’re being balanced, proactive and basically very positive. I too grew up in the East End of Ojai starting in the 1950′s in the very area where the bear was shot and I can assure you I’m no yuppie. They’re just asking you to contribute to the discussion in a helpful way; an old Ojai guy like you can get behind that can’t you?
Sue, maybe you can get DFG to issue a depredation permit to take out Art!
Seriously, our only hope for peace in this world is to understand each other. Our little valley is a microcosm of the world. if we can’t get along, how can we expect to end war?
No ART, we don’t pretend to say who can come and who can’t. This is an open meeting. I wasn’t speaking to you. I was speaking to Suza, and in the process expressing my opinion of your useless contributions to this blog. Am I allowed to express my opinion? Are you capable of comprehension? Why don’t you disprove my opinion by sharing something that would further all of our understanding as to why it would be better to kill wildlife than to live in harmony with them? Or am I not understanding your position?
Dis-invited to a public meeting by the compassionate, finger pointing, “bone picker”.
Suza, I have to disagree with you. I don’t think that Art would have much to add to any community discussion as to how we can live harmoniously with wildlife. His contributions have been mean spirited, and as Daisy so succinctly put it…”snide remarks, ridicule and hatred.”
We are wanting to educate people and discuss facts, not engage in polemics and name calling. If Art wants to learn something, sure, lets encourage him. His contributions to this blog do not indicate that.
I know a little something about bears. My guess is those cubs are going to come closer to humans than further away. Please don’t shoot at the cubs who are going to be starving and desperate without their mother and maybe snorting around garbage cans or sources of water.
From DFG spokesman Andrew Hughan:
Here is the DFG policy on bears in general. Scroll all the way to the bottom where it talks about the time deadlines for bear cubs. I have spoken to our
senior biologist and he explained the August 1 guidelines and he is confidant the cub can survive, even without its mother. I know the community wants to go out and get it but the best thing for the bear is to be left in the wild.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/bear/statewidepolicy.html
Note: We agree best thing is for cub to remain in the wild. But good to confirm it’s age/weight with a photograph. We have a plan in place in case it cannot survive.
I do want to apologize for my short temper in my previous posts. It was unproductive. Thank you Suza and Sue Williamson for everything you do educating our community on living along side of a National Forest and sharing our valley with the beautiful Ojai Wildlife. I’ve lived in Ojai since 1973 drawn here by the National Forest. I’ve hiked these trails since 1973,I lived on a 40 acre ranch at the base of the Topa Topa bluffs. I’ve never met a bear, mountain lion, bobcat, skunk, mule deer or coyote I didn’t like. I hope the cub and the mother bear are found soon. I pray the wounds to the mother bear weren’t life threatening. I’m sorry the homeowner who shot the bear lost his privacy, that the community is divided. I’ve learned a lot in the last couple of days. Thank you again Suza and Sue Williamson.
I copied this from Defenders of Wildlife
“There is a misconception that black bears are vicious animals. Because there is a common misconception among people that black bears are vicious, increasing numbers of bears are being killed as more people move into bear habitat and have interactions with them.
http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_habitat/wildlife/black_bear.php
@ art…….I will look forward to seeing you at the meeting as well!
Hi Art,
I look forward to seeing you at the meeting.
I’m guessing you were born in the 1950′s…My family moved to Thacher Road in 1957, and I too have great memories of Ojai as a rural, farming community…
I look forward to some peaceful productive dialogue about this situation. In the meantime, we have a mother bear who is wounded. If she is still alive she could be suffering a slow sad death. And we do not know if her cub can survive.
It’s a long shot but this is Ojai. We need confirmation on the bear cub’s size. Please take a photo if you see it. Here is more info.
http://www.ojaipost.com/2011/08/we-need-help-finding-the-cub/
or e-mail me the photo: Sfrancina@aol.com
Dizzy, I was Born here. Ojai used to be a great, rural farming community. It has been tarnished by influxes of half-baked, intolerant Yuppies who will never be satisfied until the rest of us convert to their urban belief systems.
If you don’t want to shoot a bear that is killing your animals or busting into your home – fine, but don’t try to force your vegan protectionist ideologies on the rest of us.
See you at the meeting Suza.
@ ritske……..very reasonable questions and insight. Thank you
@ Art, unless I am mistaken, this is NOT the venue for public ridicule , snide remarks and hatred. Furthermore, if you can’t stand activists so much why do you live here?
Art, I want to personally invite you to the upcoming meeting with Fish & Game. Time and place is in the works.
I look forward to meeting you.
I would like to know if Fish and Game is going to do anything about the invasion and now infestation of the “Greater Santa Monica Moonbat”? Or is it a Agricultural commissioners issue to solve?
Since they are an introduced non native species, nomadic by nature and leave an area in urban blight; what will be done to control them?
Gee…
Nobody mentioned that there is a school in the same area? Also this is a big area for avocado farming, bears love avocados. How many kids are living at Thatcher school? I know someone that works there and they have seen bears on the grounds allot!
Now if the bear say was around Matillija school maybe Suza can stand there with a whistle to scare them off.
It appears that activist don’t approve of depredation unless it has their approval and they get to decide what secure is. They must be better trained than game wardens.
Who’s cavorting with Apes?!!!
Critters everywhere can be unpredictable – even pets. ‘Wild’ animals should be viewed with utmost caution. Gentle/tame ? Not likely ! There are some who cavorted with Bears, Apes, etc. and now they are dead because they foolishly ‘trusted’ these cute – loveable wild things. This problem Bear should have been handled by experienced people. The shooter is damned lucky that the Bear ran off instead of attacking. Then this story would be very different !